One of the discussions taking place on dKos today is concerned with expressions of anti-Muslim and/or anti-Arab racism there. I think it was Paul that pointed out that he wasn't as attuned to it as he might be and unquestionably this is something that we will need to be more attuned to as well. We cannot, in good conscience, complain about expressions of anti-Semitism if we are going to be entirely oblivious to anti-Muslim expressions here.
I am also concerned about the possibility of sockpuppetry taking place. On many blogs sockpuppetry is welcome, but we need to decide whether or not it will be welcome here. This is entirely DKW's decision. Speaking for myself, I do not like the idea of interacting with people who are taking on multiple identities. There are places in the political blog-o-sphere where that is not at all uncommon, however those are not places that I would ever choose to participate in.
If this blog is to succeed, I honestly believe we must do a better job of policing ourselves. However, and again, these kinds of decisions are entirely up to the site-owner. They are not up to me. The only choice I have is whether or not to participate. Since I believe that the purpose of this site is necessary, I very much want to, and intend to, continue my participation.
But I will not be able to do so if I find myself interacting with people who either make bigoted comments concerning Muslims or who insist upon misrepresenting themselves.
None of us are perfect and there are any number of people on Daily Kos, and elsewhere, who would be more than happy to point out my own many foibles, failings, fuck ups, flaws and other such "f" words indicating personal imperfections. But I also sincerely believe that moving forward we must do a better job in certain areas.
That being the case, I am going to arrogantly take it upon myself to request that other members here avoid anti-Arab racism (or any other expressions of racism toward anyone) and to request that if anyone has taken on multiple identities that they cease doing so. It's not really my place to make these requests, but what the hell?
I just did.
Posted by Karmafish
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This really isn't about your post Karma but I wanna mention it here so everyone will see it fresh. I just finished watching a Canadian Global Network documentary called "Jenin-Massacring the truth." I have never seen a more powerful indictment of that press/propaganda hoax BUT it also reveals the thinking, Israel hate, and antisemitism that allows such a hoax to go worldwide.
ReplyDeleteIt is simply amazing and if you get a chance to see it do so...you will be amazed at the clarity and usefullness to the problems we face on sites like dKos.
I now return you to your regular programming!
could it be that several people all use the same spoofer program.
ReplyDeletekarma, you make a good point. However, I don't think we've seen any racism against Arabs/Muslims here. The thing is that if we saw "the Arabs," or "the Palestinians," we get tarred as not only "racists," but "orientalist" or "neo-colonialist" "racists." Its hard to avoid using the term "the Arabs" because the Arab states DID act as a group (the Arab League, Arab Higher Committee), they say they did when they went to war, which was branded as a war for the "Arab nation." Also, Arab public opinion, per polls, is very uniform of Israel/Palestinians, you can find the results for yourself. With "the Palestinians," given that there is no current state called "Palestine," we can't say "Palestine is resisting peace," but we can say "the Palestinians turned down 2000," etc. Also, that is how their authorities act. But I have not seen any real racism here. Also, some posters got branded as racist for saying some things that were maybe un-PC, like deaniac20, with his brilliant "right of return" diary. But to be honest, even the posters that were less brash than he was get called "racists" all the time, like Keith Moon, Ambrose, Hensinger, you, etc.
ReplyDeleteI think the reason we get branded so easily is the paradigm which Edward Said and various groups brought about, the Arabs as a persecuted minority constantly "colonized," which historically is false, given how powerful the Caliphates were, and how wealthy the Arab League and Organization of the Islamic Conference states are, how if not for despotic rulers, it woudl be a very prosperous bloc.
Also, the problem is some today are so PC you cannot talk about Radical Islam without being called a "bigot," which is ridiculous. Nor can you talk about aspects of their religion that are flawed, yet one on Kos can bash Christianity all he wants, which should be allowed. I seriously think the "bigot" watchword used against badmouthing Radical Islam, or Islamism is nothing but a smokescreen or ignoreance. it is true that groups like Hamas/hezbollah/al-qaeda want to impose a hateful and illiberal way of life upon people, and their dreams are the world, as their words show. It is true these groups and types of them have committed TERROR, not "resistance to imperialism." Yes there are racists, but I haven't seen it here or from posters on Daily Kos with respect to Arabs/Muslims. No one has said "Arabs or Muslims are scum," tho we did see that comment directed at Israelis.
dood,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the heads up.
I'll see if I can't round up that documentary somewheres or other.
Cheers!
Flash,
ReplyDeleteI have not the slightest fucking idea what yer talkin' about.
Spoofer program?
I dunno.
But you rock my world.
You Saint to Connecticut Golfers, You.
:O)
Krissy,
ReplyDeleteWe don't need to be all PC.
Fuck that.
But we undermine what we're trying to do here if we open ourselves to attack.
We're 3 1/2 people plus my non-existent cat and we've got a whole bunch of people who hate our asses for various bogus reasons.
Let's ride forward, but let's do it right.
Whatev.
Go forth and conquer!
My most recent foray into daily demonize Israel land has led me to believe the name of this site SHOULD be chaned. I'm thinking:
ReplyDeleteNightmare On Kos Street.
lol
Nightmare on Kos Street!
ReplyDelete:O)
I like it.
I do have to say, tho, doodad, that "occupation" is acceptable terminology.
I mean "apartheid" is, imo, bullshit.
And there are a number of other terms that I tend to think are more propagandistic than descriptive that gets used, but occupation strikes me as reasonable.
I guess we can just agree to disagree on that.
Peace please.
Karma... of course it's acceptable terminology. I never argued that...only that I preferred disputed territories because it reflects a reality that Jews, hence Israelis have rational claims on some of that territory historically and by various agreements from pre-1948 times.
ReplyDeleteAnd my only point about lefty's use of it was that it didn't have to be used in that diary and it certainly didn't have to preface the diary content. I can't see how anyone can argue that he could not have done it more in the spirit of the original request if he had wanted to.
AFAIK, use of the word occupation is totally legitimate as long as it isn't used as a hammer which was how I saw it in this case given, as I say, the tone of the original request.
I might have even said so if some of the posters over there hadn't jumped the shark that didn't need jumping. See, now I'm a right wing Likud lover. This is what passes for brilliance with far too many posters over there.
BTW I am shocked at volleyball
"Only the Likud and it's suck ups want to call it "disputed Territory"."
Even he seems to have a shark to jump with that uncalled for broad claim. Such nonsense serves no one.
MB wants
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qxWGr8VhzQ
in I/P
I didn't have a problem with the term occupation back when Israel occupied something.
ReplyDeletevolleyboy simply likes being a TU and fitting in, doodad.
ReplyDeleteit is not "occupied territory," seeing as the only one who could even remotely say "it was ours" was the Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine, I mean Jordan, but they gave up the claims, and made peace without it. But even then, Jordan's claim wasn't legit, and the Arabs turned down any territory when they rejected the UN partition plan. It was effectively terra nullius. However, Israel cannot annex it demographically, and should either go by the two or three state solution, I like the latter which means Egypt and Jordan take back Gaza/West Bank, respectively.
But for all intents and purposes, it is kind of "occupied" because thanks to the percieved influence of oil and the true influence of the Bolsheviks, "Palestine" is now "legitimate." So the two-state is the only real option, tho my dream fantasy is a massive financial compensation package with homes and jobs guaranteed, in exchange for resettlement in Jordan, which needs a population and is Palestine anyway, Israel keeps J/S and G, we have peace. I want the "occupation" to end as long as terror stops. But it can only do so when that happens. We do not need another Gaza. if only Jordan would accepted the Allon Plan.
krissy,
ReplyDeleteVolleyboy happens to be a terrific guy trying to do something excruciatingly difficult on dKos. He is a supporter of Israel trying to find areas of compromise and agreement so that the toxicity of the environment will lessen and so that a more productive conversation can be had.
It's not a matter of trying to fit in, but of advancing a pro-Israel agenda through reasonable discussion and compromise.
karma I agree he's better than most, but his posts, including one where he brought up lehi and tried to even make a remote moral equivalence between them and the Nazi Mufti Hajj Amin Al-Husseini is what really gets my blood boiling, ignoring that Husseini was mainstream, Lehi was fringe, and they didn't try to get Jews killed, but tried to save Jews, but it didn't work, tho Husseini did work and he is reponsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of Jews, and others as he aided the Nazi war effort in Southeast Europe.
ReplyDeleteHis discourse also in other areas seems to have tried to cater to the blame Israel first crowd. You cannot advance a pro-Israel agenda thru anti-Israel lenses. or words. or slogans, as he does now, always bashing Likud, as if they are the sole problem.
a two state solution, as Clinton/Barak offered is enough compromise, anymore is surrender to terror.
not to mention, 40000 Palestinian Jews fought for Britain "as if there were no White Paper," and fought the white paper as if there were no war. The Arabs in Palestine did almost none of the former, and gave us the White Paper, along with Master of Appeasement Neville Chamberlain. You had the Jewish Agency (the mainstream and authoritative Zionist organization along with the WZO), which didn't include Stern or Irgun, which was extremely pro-britain in WWII, with their PM Churchill who was pro-Israel, and you had the Mufti his Greater Syrians, as he liked to call them.
ReplyDeleteVolleyboy ought to learn this.
Krissy,
ReplyDeleteYou make an excellent point in regards Al-Husseini versus the Stern Gang, but in terms of Volley, I was reacting to your interpretation of his intent.
Volley and I do not agree on everything, but I fully respect his intention... and that matters.
Cheers!