How something named DailyKosWatch could NOT be a Dkos bashing site is kinda problematic
I am curious why it has to be a Kos bashing site. Is Human Rights Watch a human rights bashing organization or an organization that monitors human rights? If UN Watch a UN bashing site, or a site that monitors the UN? Monitoring something is not the same as bashing it. This is the same type of rhetoric that says criticizing America is akin to treason. Just like I love America and that is why I speak out when I oppose its policies, I like Daily Kos and feel the need to speak out when I see trends I don't like.
In the same comment, the author, buhdydharma, claims that I insinuate that Meteor Blades is a secret muslim. First of all, I have never even come close to mentioning Meteor Blades religion, not do I have any reason to suggest that if he were Muslim, he needed to keep it a secret. This comment is truly amazing, because what you are witnessing is someone claiming that my criticism of Meteor Blades is somehow related to the fact that he is a Muslim, the same thing they condemn when people claim criticism of Israel to be anti-semitism. I want this to be perfectly clear, so I am going to repost what I wrote about Meteor Blades. It demonstrates that the claim that I said Metero Blades is a secret muslim is both false and evidence of the complete hypocrisy of the commenter and his 3 upraters.
There is a distinction on Daily Kos between "Front Pagers" and the rest of us. Front Pagers have the ability to post things on the "front page" while the rest of us post in the columns on the side. A Front Pager is also one who could be said to "represent the site." One such person is Meteor Blades who has also taken over the role of arbitrator of disputes. Thus, he has made the rule that in any debate you cannot compare the Nazis to anyone in the I/P debate. He also warns, suspends or terminates people that, in his opinion, regularly go over the line.
The problem that I see is that Meteor Blades comes to the issue with his own viewpoints. Thus, when a diarist such as Karmafish accuses a poster supporting Hamas of supporting terrorism, Meteor Blades warns KarmaFish instead of the people supporting Hamas.
Meteor Blades, the Arbitrator of what is and is not allowed to be said, thinks Comparisons of Zionism and Nazism are fair, just not at Daily Kos.:
* [new] Comparisons of Zionism with Naziism ... (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:blueness
...are forbidden. While this might be a perfectly reasonable discussion to have in a more nuanced environment, say at a political journal or face to face among scholars, the I/P threads at Daily Kos do not qualify as such an environment and have a long history of disruptive behavior associated with such accusations. These are not productive, which is why we forbid them. Please cease and desist.
Some people would be better off not reading diaries they comment on, since they already have all the answers.
by Meteor Blades on Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 05:18:24 PM EDT
[ Parent | Reply to This ]
And here is another one of his gems:
I support the right of those Palestinians (and their offspring) who can prove a direct lineage that put them in what is now Israel prior to 1948, or who have been forced out since then.
I do not support the "return" of Palestinians whose families do not originate from what is now Israel.
That may not be Solomonic, but it is fair, and it does not mean an end to the Jewish state. [My emphasis not in the original]
Addendum: I also support the rights of Jews expelled from Arab countries to be considered refugees, with all that status implies.
The comment I really wanted to focus on, I can't find after 30 minutes of looking. If anyone can find it and post it in the comments, I would appreciate it. It is the comment where Meteor Blades states that "All Settlements Are Illegal." This was the comment that first inspired me to create this blog. A person who "represents" Daily Kos, A Democratic Blog, making such a gross misstatement and one that so directly conflicts with the Democratic Platform. Failure to distinguish between major Israeli cities like Efrat and fanatical religious outposts in the West Bank is shameful.
The larger issue is that if Meteor Blades is going to comment substantively, he should not be the arbitrator of what is allowed. That is like the fox watching the hen house. Furthermore, why is it that Meteor Blades gets to be the sole voice on what is and is not anti-semitism? Why can he continue to call for more and more support for Deniac's claim that TomJ is an anti-semite based upon some very dubious links in his profile while at the same time attacking Keith Moon for posting diaries intended to balance the All Gaza All The Time Crowd?
Finally, what I want to know is does Meteor Blades "represent" Daily Kos when he says those things. Are his views the ones we want the Democratic Party to think Daily Kos stands for? If so, count me out.
Could it be that they want to give the impression that Meteor Blades is hurting cause o' them big bad Jews on DailyKosWatch? you know keep up the demonization.
ReplyDeleteBlades, like all of us, carries his biases.
ReplyDeleteI honestly think that he tries to be fair.
You'll notice that there is a diary up this morning from a poster who is decidedly anti-Israel, if not anti-Semitic.
He claims that he received a warning from dKos to cut the anti-Semitism. And given the fact that this diarist has defended the blood libel, this is a good thing.
I am guessing that it was probably Blades that issued the warning, since he is the administrator that is monitoring Daily Kos I-P.
And for that he deserves credit.
Nonetheless, he does carry his biases, as I do. As everyone who cares about I-P does.
In any case, strange success, indeed.
I am fairly amazed at the intense antagonism that this tiny website has stirred up on dKos. The paranoia it has evoked, that we have evoked, is striking.
As I've said elsewhere... well, as I've said on dKos, itself... we're 3 1/2 people and my cat... and I don't have a cat!
The 11 uprates are most disturbing.
ReplyDeleteAs is the misinformation expressed in that diary.
ReplyDeleteFor example, he implies that 700 thousand Palestinians were pushed out of Israel and that this is confirmed by Morris.
That is false.
Morris clearly says that some were pushed out and many, many other fled the fighting in civil war begun by the Palestinians, themselves.
The Palestinians started that fight in Nov '47, but if you state this historical truth you run the risk of being smeared as a racist.
The Jews were on the defensive until the spring of '48.
btw, it should also be noted that nathan, soy, and the unspeakable one, downrated that diary.
ReplyDeleteThose guys may hate my ass, but I'm still willing to give credit where credit is due.
Nomoreimperialism is the problem with Kos. He ignores anything non-whites do because he thinks all imperialism is "white" when in reality is not, blames the "imperialist" West for all the problems in the world, probably blames America for all of them, and he sees Israel as the symbol of it. Now with that kind of thinking, its not hard to believe in Jewish conspiracy. not only did the elders of Zion have protocols, but they now are IN Zion.
ReplyDeleteLet me quote Benny Morris on the refugee crisis for all to see http://jeffweintraub.blogspot.com/2008/02/benny-morris-on-fact-fiction-propaganda.html in the Irish Times: "Most of Palestine's 700,000 "refugees" fled their homes" That means "most," a majority FLED, which is NOT the same as "expelled" as one chooses to flee, and Benny Morris http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/feb/21/israel2 says "the problem was a direct consequence of the war that the Palestinians - and, in their wake, the surrounding Arab states - had launched." So Benny Morris says it: "The displacement of the 700,000 Arabs who became refugees' - and I put the term in inverted commas, as two-thirds of them were displaced from one part of Palestine to another and not from their country (which is the usual definition of a refugee) - was not a 'racist crime' but the result of a national conflict and a war, with religious overtones, from the Muslim perspective, launched by the Arabs themselves.
Someone should point this out to him. I suggest Nomoreimperialism read Efraim Karsh's book "Islamic Imperialism: A History." The rejection of partition and Israel was pure imperialism, as was the Arab states, like Syria and Egypt's support of the Soviet Union, an imperialist entity.
Part of the problem is that we are dealing in competing narratives rather than an attempt get at something that resembles fair-minded historical truth.
ReplyDeleteThe original Israel narrative was that Arab leadership called on the Palestinians to vacate the area until after they had destroyed the Yishuv, at which point they could return.
The original Arab narrative, if I am not mistaken, was that the Jews pushed them all out at rifle point.
Israeli revisionists, like Morris and others, have revised the original narrative in the name of historical truth, so that now we know more about the truthfulness of the original Arab claims versus the original Israeli claims. We know that many were pushed out because Yishuv commanders on the ground were given the authority to vacate Palestinian villages wherein Palestinian fighters were operating.
But, as Krissy notes, we also know that large numbers fled the war, a war that the Yishuv did not start. It should also be noted that Jews had no such option. While the Palestinians could flee the fighting, the Jews had no place to run. It was either fight and win or get wiped out, which, of course, is why even Jewish women took up arms.
the thing is Karma, Morris is the only "new historian" that gets it close to right. Pappe, Segev, Shlaim, etc. are complete liars yet loved by the anti-Israel propaganda crowd. There is Morris, and then them, so lets not get enamoured with the other "revisionists." Tho Morris did make some serious mistakes on Ben Gurion, as Karsh pointed out. The biggest problem, tho is how people misuse Morris, or even listen to losers like Said, Khalidi, Masahla, etc. While Karsh and Morris feud over things, both get it right that most Arabs fled, because of the war the Arabs started.
ReplyDeleteThe lack of peace is the failure of the Arabs(which they dub themselves all the time as "the Arabs") to take any responsibility for the problem whatsoever. The whole thing is to deny Zionism legitimacy, and THEN lie about refugees. Problem is, the way they do it, they only can either pretend Jews aren't connected to Eretz Israel, deny the Holocaust (and then ironically accuse Jews of one in Gaza hahah), or both. So anti-Zionism is based off lies.
also, with Morris, another problem is that he doesn't get access to the Arab archives. Thing is, we have tons of statements from Arab leaders implicating themselves in the refugee situation. Thing is Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iraq will not let anyone dig in. I would bet if they opened up, the records would show a lot were ordered to leave. Morris has recently uncovered more Arab orders to leave. But still, there are TONS of quotes from Arabs themselves implicating themselves in the refugee situation.
ReplyDeleteY'know, I remember Morris saying in some interview that he did not have access to the Arab archives because those archives are closed.
ReplyDeleteI mentioned this on dKos and was told that this is false, so I really do not know what to make of it.
What seems likely to me is that most of the Arab governments keep a tighter lid on their archives than does Israel and while they might allow Arab or Muslim scholars access, they would not allow a Jewish-Israeli like Morris access.
But, as I say, I do not know the truth of it.
One thing that Morris also claims is that while Israeli scholars have revised the original narrative, we have not seen anything similar from Arab scholars and historians. That's what he claims.
Of course its true the Arab countries will not allow scholars, at least Israeli ones into their archives, or else we'd have seen books, and Morris would cite them. Why would he not wanna see them? Common sense, c'mon, also, its well known http://yalepress.yale.edu/yupbooks/book.asp?isbn=9780300126969 the Arab archives are closed. The only reason on Kos they'd tell you thats false is obvious: because their asses are covered by not allowing people to see their archives. If people saw them, the Arab narrative would blow up like a shahid. Morris himself has said the Arab countries will not let him see their stuff http://www.democracynow.org/2008/5/16/as_israelis_celebrate_independence_and_palestinians
ReplyDeleteWar in Palestine, 1948: Strategy and Diplomacy
ReplyDeleteBook by David Tal; Frank Cass, 2003
Subjects: Israel-Arab War, 1948-1949, Israel-Arab War, 1948-1949--Armistices, Israel-Arab War, 1948-1949--Diplomatic History Collections: History, Entire Library
Research into the Arab Israeli wars is far from exhausted and whilst the 1948 war has been scrutinized by various academic and public forums very few detailed studies have been carried out. The author explains how the Arab archives are closed to the public and only British, U.S. and Israeli sources are available.
and of course, I see a Meteor post where he tries to impugn MEMRI's translation of an Ahmadinejad speech where Ahmad's words not only sound like Hitler, but his voice happens to as well :))))))
ReplyDeletehttp://www.dailykos.com/comments/2009/8/27/145643/399/113#c113
Its amazing how people like Meteor and the other Juan Cole followers think they know Farsi better than professional translators, but oh because they're Jews, Zionists, whatever, you just cannot trust their peskiness' translations. Or maybe, they have to lie to theirselves to pretend the hate coming out of the ME against Israel doesn't exist. That is the only way to justify how the Arabs have been trying to eliminate Israel and their Jews for almost a century
MB wants this in I/P
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qxWGr8VhzQ