It's just fucking grotesque.
I see that Keith Moon has another diary up on Daily Kos criticizing Hamas and, needless to say, some people are taking him to the woodshed for daring to be mean to that "legitimate" group of "freedom fighters."
Christ a'mighty, why in the world would anyone want to say anything mean about an organization that calls quite specifically for the murder of Jewish people? I mean, within dKos I-P, Hamas is not controversial, but complaining about them is.
And that's the problem in a nutshell, now isn't it?
Day after day after day.
Yesterday we had people defending the blood libel published by the Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet.
Heathlander suggested that the Israeli government response to that article, which as you know suggested that Jews kill Palestinians for the purpose of harvesting their organs, was nothing more than a transparent attempt to divert people's attention from the settlements... and almost twice as many people uprated that comment as downrated it. He makes this claim, with no supporting evidence, of course, as if it's inconceivable that Israelis and Jews might have good historical and actual reasons for opposing European anti-Semitism in a part of the world next door to where millions of Jews were slaughtered within living memory.
It's just fucking grotesque.
And these people are "liberals"?
Disgusting.
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its amazing people can defend this article, but that old diary about child weddings, which is FAR more likely to have even had a chance of being true, was evil. It was a bad diary, but if the Aftonbladet thing were a diary, I'd hope for a deletion. But of course that would never happen now would it.
ReplyDeleteKarma, Heathlander is a Finkelstein wannabe, or maybe him himself. Finkelstein claims that Jews made Holocaust movies starting in 1967 to divert from oppressing the Palestinian Arabs, Heathlander claims Israel is attacking the false article to build more settlements. It always seems Israel haters all say and think the same things. Like much of the arguments on Kos are Mearsheimer/Walt, Pappe, etc.
These people are not "liberals." Liberals do not accept Islamism anymore than evangelical Bush-like Christianity or Haredism. Liberals don't engage in anti-semitism. In fact, Islamism is far more violent and dangerous than both of the latter ones and more oppressive.
These are leftists: their hate for Israel is not in a vacuum, but part of a distorted worldview, with anti-semitism at its core. The world has seen this before
Well said Krissy - not liberals or progressives. Far leftists is a much better description.
ReplyDeleteI tipped Keith and will continue to tip anyone who goes into the trenches every day.
I love how they always accuse the Pro-I people of diversion - every comment in that thread is a diversion from the monstrosity that is hamas.
Heya guys,
ReplyDeletewe need to promote this blog.
Will you help me and the mysterious DKW?
There are any number of pro-Israel, pro-Jewish blogs out there that we should drop a line to.
Everybody on-line knows about dKos, but not everybody knows what goes on over there... and they need to be alerted.
It's important because dKos is the largest political blog in the universe and it speaks for the Democratic Party grassroots / netroots and, if dKos I-P is any measure, Israel Hate is growing and anti-Semitism is getting smuggled in under the cover of anti-Zionism.
We may not all agree on everything, but we do agree that they are treating the Jewish state like dog shit.
We need to fight back.
So, spread the word, eh?
One question that I have for the site owner, for DKW, is whether or not we should refer to this place on dKos, itself?
We do not want dKos anti-Israel ideologues coming over here for the purposes of harassment, but I think that a strategic reference to this place, here and there within dKos I-P, might boost our numbers.
What do you guys think?
And, more specifically, what does DKW think about that?
Fuck Meteor, if he wants his blog to be filled with far out-of-the-mainstream leftists (not liberal) moonbats, some of whom aren't even American voters and have no business on a blog dedicated to the US Democratic Party, go around and try to make their distorted views part of our proud country's politics and Democratic Party's tradition, well fuck him! The Daily Kos should not serve for the crazies who love Chavez and Ahmadinejad (but then turned on Ahmad ONLY to pay lip service to human rights, but ignoring that it is that type of Islamist dictator who promotes and is behind Hamas/Hezbollah) as some still defend Ahmad using failed academic Juan Cole, which is some how on the DKos blog roll, then thats his problem. The fact Chavez gets love is sad.
ReplyDeleteJuan Cole being on the blog roll is a MASSIVE part of the DKos problem. Juan Cole believes in Jewish conspiracy and downplaying Islamists for the sole purpose of bashing Israel, yet his pathetic blog is on the Kos blogroll, even tho little he says is true! Oddly enough, Cole supported Afghanistan initially AND Iraq in the beginning, but now blames the "Israel 'lobby'" for both of them! Too bad the myth of AIPAC bringing about Iraq is just that, just like the idea Sharon brought it too. Cole even calls neo-Cons "likudniks" with no evidence, suggesting dual loyalty.
Also telling is how someone told me how they sent Tom J a fake message, saying "and I would never say this on Daily Kos, but Hamas and Hezbollah are true freedom fighters. I really don't care if all Zionists were to get nuked by Ahmad! Keep rocking, the netanYAHUD(Jew in Arabic) neo-cons will drop like flies on Kos!" and Tom J simply responds "I so disagree with the idea of killing, and certainly mass killing. The world has had way too much of that. We must remember our struggle is against unjust systems ,. not a people."
Tom J doesn't even call Ahmad nuking Israel "genocide," which it would be, and in the email, he didn't even try to pretend Ahmad has another intention (the idea he didn't say what he did, of course has been refuted even by Iran's own translators as in the Bronner NYT article and truly is "wipe off the map") nor does he act shocked someone would send him such an email. but of course, Tom J also believes in Jewish conspiracy too, linking on his profile to "stopaipac.org" Yet Tom forgets the Palestinians would die in such an attack. This proves some of the people on Kos hate Israel more than they actually care about the Palestinians. Also, the Zionists are not "a people." The Jews are a people, and half of the world's live in Israel, and Israel is the only Jewish state in the world, compared to 21 Arab states, and many more Islamic states, of which Arab states are a subset.
It pains me to see blogs not only like DKos but also the Huffington Post as well, claim to be the "progressive movement" but constantly are filled with not liberal, but leftist hate speech and anti-semitic diatribe. I think this blog should also cover Huffington Post. If you look at the "world" part of Huffington Post, nearly half or more is I/P related, and of course, they use Al-Jazeera, a well known terrorist propaganda channel. Almost EVERY single article is an article bashing Israel, or putting some out of the mainstream leftist Israel voice as a token in, when reporting the middle East. And only those articles on the ME/Islamic world get comments. When its about other Islamic terrorism, no one comments, or any other foreign issue, except maybe Iran, when the people once again ignore that its them who brings terror to Israel/"Palestine" aka Greater Syria.
If DKos and HuffPo become mainstream Dems, the Dem party will have to confront the fifth column lurking, or it will face massive problems in the future. I can only hope we can help to start to bring a balance and an end to this creeping fifth column.
Oh boy
ReplyDelete...but my stepson and stepdaughter are, so we fast at Ramadan as well. As Ramadan moves into the summer months, it gets harder because the days grow longer.
Some people would be better off not reading diaries they comment on, since they already have all the answers.
by Meteor Blades on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 03:35:44 AM EDT
[ Parent | Reply to This ]
http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2009/8/21/13013/7862/8#c8
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteJesus Christ, Flash, Jesus Christ.
ReplyDeleteI have nothing against Muslims as individuals, or at all. But given that they are a small portion of our electorate, and have not done anywhere near as much as the Jews or other groups for our party or country as a collective group, why are they gaining so much influence in our party's blogs? Especially considering how mosques promote very conservative Muslim views, and CAIR and other groups have been implicated in unsavory things, i think you may have explained a lot. Also, I think a previous posted did make a point about Arabs posting on the blogs: perhaps they do it from other countries to push their views on people. or if these Arab/Muslim bloggers, which I suspect could be a lot, are citizens here, why can't they integrate? They seem to be able to do that no where in anything, not lifestyle, or political views.
Where are these people about the ethnic cleansing of Kashmir? I have dead relatives there. But nope, its all about Jordan, I mean Palestine.
I am happy to have the help. How sad is it that I decided NOT to post an article about the Swedish story becuase I knew it would be defended by the Heathlanders of the world and I just didn't have the stomach to fight it. Now they are even denying anti-semitism is anti-semitism. How funny is it, though, that the other Swedish newspaper totally said that the article would be defended by a pre-emptive attack that it was not ani-semitic and calling it so was just an attempt to stop criticism of Israel and then the first thing people like Heathlander said is just legitimate criticism of Israel.
ReplyDeleteThis is an issue we have to attack because their goal is to find a way to be anti-semitic but not be called on it. Thus, they say things like the Jewish Cabal in Israel murders Palestinian children for fun but that's not an anti-semitic comment, its just anti-Israel.
Regards,
DKW
Yep, pretty despicable day at dKos for sure. I think it's obvious that there is a concerted effort, perhaps not planned but definitely de fact, to get pro-I people banned. I mean, everybody and their brother gets to call people racists over there with NO consequences but KM gets called to task for intent. It's almost surreal.
ReplyDeleteBTW here's another watch site for the Guardian rag
http://cifwatch.com/how-we-define-antisemitism/
Well worth a look.
I dropped Ami Isseroff a line at his progressive Zionation blog.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.zionism-israel.com/log/
I will contact Meryl Yourish next.
http://www.yourish.com/
We need to alert people of the ideological Israel hate that is being spread on dKos and I think that we should be bi-partisan about this.
Any volunteers to sally forth and alert other pro-Israel blogs of our little corner of the universe?
Oh, and btw, per Meteor Blades.
ReplyDeleteI think that he's a decent and smart man, but he is definitely biased in the other direction. However, I very much hope that we do not start lambasting the guy here.
As a moderator of dKos he is open to criticism, but I very much hope that criticism will be fair to him, personally.
It seems to me that the impetus behind this blog is the realization that Israel is vilified within Daily Kos I-P. Just as we should welcome criticism of Israel, while objecting to demonization, so we should avoid demonizing Daily Kos, even as we criticize Daily Kos I-P.
My two shekels.
Karma,
ReplyDeleteWhile I agree with a lot of what you are saying, the Meteor Blades thing is important because of all the commenters, he is the only one who the FAQ specifically states "talks for DKos."
I don't want to make this bi-partisan though because my purpose is to fight for a better Democratic Party and to me that means support for Israel. I do not want to prove the point of Republicans that Democrats and especially Progressive Democrats are bad for Israel. This is the notion I want to fight.
Regards,
DKW
Karma,
ReplyDeleteAll good points, but the Meteor Blades thing is one of the reasons for this blog.
Flash ahaaa
I had a few frustrating debates and some decent ones. For the most part Alec is a decent guy. I found Christopher Day's exchange with me to be informative.
ReplyDeleteWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander.
But rather because I'm not willing to play this sick game of treating Palestinian children as rhetorical pawns while they are being robbed of their childhoods by the Israeli occupation and seige.
So if Moon is using them as rhetorical pawns, what about whenever someone else posts about them? It seems to me that support Palestinian side = loves the children, oppose Palestinian side = using them as rhetorical pawn.
Moon doesn't give a shit if you burn a Palestinian school girl's flesh to the bone with white phosphorous or collapse her home on her with a missile, or humiliate her father in front of her at a checkpoint. Indeed he is an apologist for all of the above.
This is exactly the problem with I/P debates. If I said that you are TomJ or Heathlander didn't care about the murder of Israeli civilians, about the kidnapping and torture of Israeli soldiers, about Hamas support and participation in Terrorism, I would be called all sorts of vile names and HRed. But you can do it to Moon because he doesn't agree with you on I/P issues.
There are dozens of policies and practices of Israel that I could demand that you or Keith "condemn," but such a method of argumentation has nothing to do with actually working through the issue and everything to do with intimidation.
This is routinely done. In fact, it is common. Post an article about what Hamas is doing and the response is always "Yeah, but what about Israel." I hardly need to condemn Israel, there are plenty of peopl ehere to do it for anything and everything. This is the site that defended the Swedish article claiming that the IDF was harvesting the organs of Palestinians to sell on the black market. Nonetheless, even in this diary alone I have criticized the religious influence in the Israeli government. I have stated this before, but the advantage I have over people like you is that I recognize that conceding a point often gets your more credibility than arguing a silly point.
if so and so fails to "condemn" such and such policy or practice of Hamas this is taken as evidence of their sympathy for Hamas and therefore with all of its methods including suicide bombing and firing rockets at Sderot. Its demagogery 101 and the proper response is always to refuse to play.
Just to come full circle, I refer you back to your comment "Moon doesn't give a shit if you burn a Palestinian school girl's flesh to the bone with white phosphorous or collapse her home on her with a missile, or humiliate her father in front of her at a checkpoint." If Moon's views on the I/P Conflict engenders this type of response from you, I certainly think that the failure to condemn Hamas can equate to support for Hamas and their tactics. Again, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
Good Day.