We need action to stop this illegal occupation and do whatever it takes to end the murder of innocent children.
While most of us here presumably oppose the occupation, as I do, this reference to murdering children represents precisely the kind of toxic hyperbole that often characterizes the very worst of Daily Kos I-P.
It also brings to mind the classic Blood Libel, in which Jews throughout the Middle Ages were accused of murdering Christian children in order to use their blood for ritual purposes or to make matzoh.
It represents, in my view, an updated version of the Blood Libel, except that instead of accusing Jews one simply accuses the Jewish state. The implication, of course, is not that Israel is a rational actor in an exceedingly difficult world, but that it is a Moral Monster on the world stage intent on spreading violence and misery.
I would argue that such notions also help spread anti-Semitism because if Israel is the Jewish state, and if Israel has the support of most diaspora Jews, what can this say about Jews, in general?
Nothing good, that's for certain.
Posted by Karmafish
btw, I think that it's important when discussing this type of material that we make a clear distinction between Daily Kos and Daily Kos I-P.
ReplyDeleteThe fact of the matter, of course, is that Daily Kos is a tremendous blog with over 200,000 registered users and who knows how many thousands of regular participants. The great majority, for reasons that should be fairly obvious, avoid Daily Kos I-P like the plague that it so often is. The problem here is not with Daily Kos, per se, but with a small percentage of I-P regulars who allow their rhetoric and hyperbole to descend into the lowest form of political discourse possible.
Well Karma, I think the problem is that the Daily Kos and Huffington Post I/P is part of the reason Obama got the nomination, and we've seen how well that has worked out for Middle East peace. Obama's perceived sympathy and palling around with people like Edward Said and Rashid Khalidi is a big part why Israelis ran to the polls for Bibi. Hillary was popular in Israel, moreso than McCain OR Obama. Look for JPost article "Clinton Clobbers McCain; McCain thrashes Obama...In Israel."
ReplyDeleteThis DKos I/P has had too big of an impact. They're behind J-Street, which is trying to hurt Israel, even tho they, as a naive group, think they're helping, when they're not. They're OK with Israel getting all the pressure and the Arabs none.
I hope the rest of DKos wakes up and sees the fifth column of anti-Zionists at the party's midst.
Krissy,
ReplyDeleteI don't think your rhetoric is helpful. I happen to know one of the guys who started JStreet, and Jstreet is neither influenced by Daily Kos nor is it trying to hurt Israel.
As for the rest, I think Karmafish is right. It is one gang of people who somehow make it seem like their views have wider support than they really do. Hence guys like my friend the front pager who always tells me to ignore them.
Regards,
DKW
I'm sure that because the Jew who was berated by teabaggers yelling 'heil Hitler' was an Israeli, Tom J and his crew don't consider this antisemitism, just fair critique of Israel's healthcare system.
ReplyDeleteKrissy,
ReplyDeletefor the moment I am still willing to give Obama the benefit of the doubt. My problem with him is that I fear that by making "settlement freeze" a precondition for talks that the Arab players, including Abbas, will use that precondition as an excuse to avoid the table... as I've said ad nauseum. I also believe that many, many Israelis perceive a lack of even-handedness in Barack's dealing with the two sides.
Nonetheless, for the moment, at least, I am willing to simply wait and watch before I declare any harsh judgments on the guy. Hell, I voted for him, after all, and want him to succeed in bringing peace and the two-state solution.
We shall see.
And, remember, our purpose here is emphatically not to demonize Daily Kos, but to "track and document the debate about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict" on that site. We obviously will do so from the perspective of people who care about Israel, but we definitely should avoid broad brush anti-Kos statements, I think.
Cheers!
I didn't mean to use a broad brush. But I am saying something about the potentially influential and maybe dangerous part of the party who is anti-I. I voted for Obama too, thinking he simply pandered earlier. Dennis Ross' new book reminds us all why this new "realism" in the ME isn't actually realistic, but naivete. I like the idea of DKos and am happy that we can say this is a small minority of posters. But of this small minority, a big majority is far out of the mainstream on I/P. I really hope Kos takes the steps to fix this. I am happy Nazi analogies were banned, tho I do think that anti-semitic hate groups like hamas and Hezbollah could still be applied. But if some wanna mind demonizing such elite groups, as long as none can use "Zionazi," then OK for now. But I think the "apartheid" analogy should be banned. Just because a bunch of nutties in Europe and here use it, it is not true or ok. If Kos takes the lead in ending this epithet, which only hurts peace, I will be very happy.
ReplyDeleteand Karma, lets keep reminding those on Kos, most Ds and Rs, and most Americans support Israel, and for good reason.
ReplyDeleteKarmafish,
ReplyDeleteWhat is amazing to me is that Fatah can still say they don't recignize Israel's right to exist. This was step one of Oslo. Israel has to give away more land to gain something that they already supposedly gained 15 years ago?
Makes no sense to me.
Regards,
DKW
DKW,
ReplyDeleteYou appear to support J Street - if I read you correctly.
If so, I disagree strongly on that point. J Street supports segregation in Israel and the ghettoization of Jerusalem, by forcing certain neighborhoods to be cleansed of Jews. This is literally J Street policy.
Moreover, J Street is affiliated with Avrum Burg, who called Israel the new Nazis. They were out there campaigning against Operation Cast Lead, which was an operation to protect Jews in Sderot and Southern Israel, and was made necessary via Hamas's thousands of rockets.
Sorry, but this 'pro-Israel' and 'pro-peace' group is really an anti-Israel group that mangles the English language in order to pretend they support Israel.
There may be people at J Street who on a personal level are good and nice that are involved. I even know one such person. But the organization is not good, whether or not it is affiliated with Daily Kos.